CTF idea... posted in wrong thread to begin with.

[Fridgecritter]

I think I posted this in the wrong thread to begin with (development) since I haven't actually developed this.  It's only in the idea/theory stage.  Let me know what you think:

I have had this idea for a while, but can't get the final details worked out. Here is the summary:

Capture the flag: Event NPCs that spawn every day at a certain time (or 4 times a day, etc...) and Shout2 to the server that the event is beginning. You zone into the event, and you are put on a team (NPC will pick team 1 for first, 2 for second, 1 for 3rd, etc.)

OR if that's not possible, then a GM can run it, and assign teams to every other player in the same fashion, but you can still use an NPC to port the players into the CTF map. Maybe even choose what team you want to be at the NPC, and the NPC will port you to the correct side of the map according to what team you choose. GMs can then balance the teams if need be.

Teams based on race, and I'll get to why in a minute... But the important part is, there is an NPC waiting as you zone in, and you are in a closed room on your team's side of the map (base). You have to hail the NPC there, and he will change your race to gnoll or frog based on what side you are on (or whatever races you choose for your server).

Now, you can't leave that room until you hail the NPC because in addition to changing your race, he gives you a key to the door (temporary, poofs on death) doesnt matter at that point because you dont need to get back into that room when the event is under way, the flag is not in there. This way people don't start the event without changing races. Then you can go out to the next room which is the ready room. When the GM (or NPC if possible) starts the event, the doors open and both teams may start.

When you get to the other side of the map in the opposing team's base, there is an object there that you click on to get the flag (or NPC, whichever is easier for perl checks) It checks for the following things:

1. There is not a flag already checked out, or you don't already have a flag (prevents people from getting 10 flags and turning them in) or just make them lore if you use an item for the flag... get to that in a minute.

2. You're race is the opposite team's race (thinking gotta pick races that enchanters can't illusion into) Keeps players from taking their own flag and hording it. That's where the changing people's races comes into play. This way with a small population such as Emu, you can still fill up the teams.

For the map, you custom make a map in a quake III editor so you don't have to worry about copyrighted maps, and convert it using openzone, then add your doors and NPCs, objects. You can even put in triggers like areas that check proximity and check if the player has the flag, then shout to the zone where they are on their way to their own base.

OR, you could use an existing map such as GukH that is not being used, and already has long corridors and a map that looks like you could have a base at the north end, and one at the south end. You could even block off other areas and make it so the map tells on the player in the zone if they try and go off down an alley and hide. This way, your players would not have to download any new map files.

When the player gets to the other end of the map and back to their own base with the enemy flag, they get AA points or Items given to them from the NPC that add up that they can spend at a special epic weapons and good armor vendor, or however you want to work it. Easy enough.

NOW... here's the part I have not figured out yet. This part escapes me. The actual Kills/Flag removal part. Since you would take forever killing a warrior while he is running across the map with a disc on, especially if you are say, level 30 and the warrior is 75, there needs to be a way that keeps it level neutral. Such as:

1. The flag is a spell, The npc shouts in the zone who he casts it on, and all players get an item that casts a weak dispell to get rid of the flag on your target?

2. The flag is an item so you can actually see who has the flag, but then how do you handle getting it off the player? Maybe an item that has a clicky and disappears if you zone, that kills the targeted player if they have the flag (no idea if that's possible), and the flag is temporary so when you die you lose it?

3. If you choose to kill players to get rid of the flag, then they will need to be bound on their side of the base... so then you need to make the entry NPC bind you on entry. Then when the event's over, who cares if people gate into it because the NPCs in the event map are on a spawn timer, and they poof after the event's over. You could even do like in cshome and put Uber powerful mobs in there that are on an opposite spawn timer as the event NPCs, and they deathtouch you upon gating in, and shout to the world that they killed you when you tried to enter the CTF map when the event isn't running? Maybe there is a way that when you use the NPCs that spawn to let you out of the event at the end, they can change your bind point to 0,0,30 in Nexus?

I am open to suggestions on this, and I hope everyone throws in their two cents, including the Devs and Quest writers, as I think this would be a very fun event.

Thanks.

[trevius]

Wrong forum again lol. This should probably have gone into development::feature requests or in development::custom code.

Sounds like an interesting and well thought out idea. I think most of that would be pretty straight-forward to write as quests. Pretty much everything you want done is doable in one way or another. If I ran a PVP server, I would probably start working on this immediately lol. I may eventually try something similar to this for PVE if I ever get the time.

[trevius]

Actually the more I think about this, it could probably have gone into the Quests::Q&A section. Since I think most of it can be done via quests. Depends on if any of it would need custom code to work properly or not.

[Fridgecritter]

So you see my dilemma. If need be, maybe a moderator can move this to the appropriate section where you think it belongs. Don't think it's the right thing to do to post this in several threads (Spam).

However, while we are discussing it, I would like to know how you would recommend implementing the kill/and/or/flag taking issue, while keeping it level neutral so that all parties can participate regardless of level?

I know the other aspects can be handled through quests, such as the race checks at the NPC, the item issuance (flag) and such. That part is easy enough. I am wondering really if anyone has any idea on what to do for the actual flag loss on death or tagging/however you would do it.

[trevius]

Ya, you definitely don't want to post this anywhere else. Just wait to see if it is moved or not. Spamming can get you in big trouble.

To even the battlegrounds, I would probably have to make it so the events had a level range specified. Some might be for 20-30, some might be 1-10, some may be 60-70 etc. I would also allow level 70s to temporarily de-level to that level range using my de-level quest. Then it would come down to who has the best no level req/rec gear and/or best skill.

Depending on player race, the NPC that sends players to that zone would send different races to either side of the zone. You can divide it up however you want. Simply add a race check to the porting NPC and then the quest::movepc(zoneid,x,y,z); to have different locations of the zone depending on which side that race is considered to be on. I am not sure if illusions are considered or not, so that might take some testing to make sure people can't cheat and switch sides.


This is one way to do it:

The players zone into a small room that has a locked door on it, and 1 NPC in that room.

That NPC will have a proximity that will cause any players that enter it to be bound to that area and also change their race to the race of their team so sides will be easily identifiable. It will also set a quest global on them all for use later on.

The NPC will ask them to say [ready] when they are all ready to go.

Once one side says they are ready, a signal is sent to another NPC that keeps track of the event. That NPC will then send a signal to the opposing side NPC and the opposing side NPC will say that the other team is ready and all they have to do is say [confirm] which will send a signal back to the event tracking NPC and this will open the doors to begin the event.

Upon getting to the opponent's side of the zone, there will be another NPC in a separate area from the starting room. This NPC will have a small proximity set on it that once entered by the opposing team will cause the NPC to despawn, use quest globals to "flag" the player and set their race to yet another race so that everyone can identify who has the "flag" easily.

If the flag carrier is killed, they will return to the bind point where they zoned in and their "flag" will be removed by entering the bind NPC's proximity. Their race will also be set again to their team's race.

Finally, if the player with the "flag" makes it back to their side (different room than the zone in room), their own flag NPC will check their globals and race to verify that they have the flag and have the correct flag race and then reward the player however you see fit. It will send a signal to the event tracking NPC which will announce that the event has been completed and will despawn all NPCs related to the event.

Deciding the reward(s) is up to you.


Another option might be to have the NPC at the zone in do all of the things I already listed, but also then send the players to their "flag" room. The binding NPCs could then be anywhere that is blocked off from the rest of the zone. I don't think something like this would be all too hard to write. It would just take some testing and working out the final details. The hardest part would probably be setting up the doors.

There are many options that could be added to this quest. It definitely sounds interesting.

[Fridgecritter]

Sounds very promising. I still don't know about the combat element of it though. Sure, with Quake III or similar FPS games, you get hit maybe 3 times max and you are dead, but in EQ, you may get get 500 times before you die.

This is the hard part to mitigate. One idea I had after reading your post is to have everyone delevel to a certain level upon entry to level the playing field, and then an NPC puts a debuff on them that makes AC almost nonexistent. Like I said before as well, there needs to be narrow corridors on the map that serve as choke points so you don't just have people running a loop around the competition to make the point.

Another thing to figure out is the flag check. I like your idea about using yet a different race as the flag. This is great. We could even make it so the NPC changes the #size too so you are easier to target and hit. The hard part is going to be preventing everyone from a team from changing race, and you have an entire team with flags.

Any ideas on the zone flag check function? I think the rest is pretty much hashed out for sure?

P.S.
Feel free to use this idea. I want to see it work.

[trevius]

By changing race, I meant when they get the flag, they turn into an NPC race that no players can cast or get items to change to. So, maybe change them into one of the new globals like race 470 Hanvarlookingmob(withoutaxe). I don't think there is a way to have quests change player size.

As for the combat portion, you could probably create a custom spell for the NPC at the start to cast that will reduce all stats by 500 and AC by 3000 or so. That would be a start. Then you could create another spell that will buff players with an insane damage proc so they can kill any player in a few hits. Maybe even have it proc cazictouch (death touch). You would have to make sure that any players that leave the zone will have that buff removed though lol. Players would definitely want to use speed buffs and snare/root when possible.

One thing I was thinking about but have never tried to give out the reward might be to have an NPC spawned when the flag is turned in and the event is won. The NPC that is spawned would depend on which side won. That NPC could maybe have a perimeter so large it would cover the entire zone and the perimeter would check for the winning quest globals. Then any players on the winning team would be rewarded with whatever the reward is and have their quest global changed again so they don't keep getting the reward over and over.

And, the only reason I mentioned that the final flag check NPC checks for race is so that it makes sure the player didn't change their race with an illusion to make it look like they don't have the flag. The real "flag" check is in the quest globals. Quest globals are a way to "flag" a character so that NPCs can remember them. They can be used in tons of ways.

[Fridgecritter]

Sounds great, and the debuff idea sounds good too. I have already found a QIII map that I got permission from the designer to use. He made it from scratch using Quake modeling tools.

I am starting work on the project tonight. The map has two rooms that can be closed in with spawned doors, no space aged teleports into the air, lots of stairs and is perfect for what I need it for. I will start coding the easy parts of the script first like the teleports and race changes, and go from there. I will keep you all posted on my results, and host some screen shots on my site with links here.

Thanks a ton for the ideas... keep them coming!

[w4xt33th]

Well from the sounds of it, its sounds a lot like WSG in WoW. I haven't had a chance to mess with shrouding to even see if it works on the EQEmu but if it does maybe thats one way of doing it. Make it so only shrouded players can enter the zone via teleport NPC. That should make the playing field a little more fun.

As far as the item I would say it would probably have to be a buff. When the person dies then the buff is gone. You would have to tie it in with a spamming particle effect. something like the Jboot clicky particle effect or the monk 1.0 celestial fist effect. That would require players to set their video cards to show them though.

Another idea... Lets say you base it off of evil vs good. Evil players get made into goblins and good players turn to otters. if an otter reaches the NPC in the goblin base he hails the NPC to get an illusion buff... lets say Orc for example. Now the otter with the orc illusion has to get back to his home base and hail his NPC which will give the team 1 point... or the player something. With that you could either make it so one person on the otter team can have orc illusion or whoever hails the opposite NPC. So you could score multiple points in a group.

I think the hard thing would be how to make a scoreboard or decide who is in the lead as far as team wise. Maybe every time you get the illusion from the enemys base then turn it in to your own then your NPC will zone shout a score. first to reach 10 or whatever will trigger both NPC's to depop and the winning side gets whatever. I think it would take a lot of careful planning but it would defiantly open up a whole new idea for EQ.

EQ Battlefields FTW!

[Fridgecritter]

I never thought of that and I don't know why. I had a level 70 Warlock that lived in the BGs on WoW. Why have people parading around trying to kill each other in one hit when EQ was not designed to do that?

Make it a battleground. That's perfect! Everything would be the same as I planned, only the goal would not be to get the flag and bring it back and get points, but rather to get to the enemy's base and infiltrate their defenses, and kill the boss NPC. Perfect!

This way I don't have to worry about player levels being equal. You just let players from level 68 to 75 into the BG, and they all PVP each other on the way to the other team's base. I am really stoked about this idea.

When the boss NPC is killed, he automatically drops 6 of the same LORE, NO TRADE item that each player on the team can loot after the boss is dead. This item can be turned in to an NPC for rewards. The more of them you have, the more rewards you get. Just like in WoW.

BGs were my favorite part of WoW anyhow, since after 70 the game basically became a chat program with 3D avatars.

I am running with this idea now, and now I need to pick another map because the smaller CTF map I had in mind just will not do. This totally solves my PVP issue because it doesn't matter if you can kill someone in 3 hits this way because there are no flags.

NOW... the issue I have to figure out because I have no clue how to do it, is to have the zone de-pop when one of the bosses is killed, and the boss is only spawned on a trigger. Even though players might stick around to defend the boss, if they leave him behind undefended then I don't want players to be able to just go straight to the end and kill him.

Maybe make the zone so you can't invis. I think there is a field in the database for that in the zone table. MORE IDEAS these are great guys!

Oh, and of course if I make a finished version of this event first, I will post the SQL scripts for anyone to add it to their server in the quests section. Thanks a ton.

[w4xt33th]

Using AV for example lets see what we can do with a mixture of EQ faction.

Lets say you have 2 NPC's in POK. one is on a good faction and another is on a bad faction. As you do quests for one of them your faction with that NPC goes up while your faction for the other NPC goes down. In order to join the BG's you would need atleast warmly or something. Make the quest turn ins reward high amounts of faction simply for picking the team you want to be on. Also have vendor NPCs based on those factions. Kinda like DoN good vs evil mission NPC's but make it so in order to get the best gear you would eventually have to switch to the other faction. Just so its not an overly one sided fight.

Like weapons and augs from the good one and armor and trinkets from the bad vendors.

Now for the BG... You would need a map that would offer a good defensive position to both teams right before their general... like the bottlenecks in AV. the bridge at ally and the tower at horde. Along the way you could put NPC's like in AV based on the good or bad faction. killing them would net in minor random drop items that wouldn't be as good as the merchant items you would get from the general but it would be good enough to encourage players to hit them on the way to the general. You could also put quest pieces on them to help play a major part in other quests outside the BG. Some servers have custom epic quests... that would be a good thing. Or make an uber trinket on your server and put one of the pieces on the NPC's as a minor chance to drop.

For graveyards you would simply put NPC's that bind you via "bind my soul" as you go down the map... still haven't figured that part out. Also... when you die would you load on the same map again or just be gated back to bind with all buffs gone and full health/mana/endurance?

You could do a lot with it.

[Fridgecritter]

For the Graveyards...

If you have say, 6 graveyards in the map, 3 for each team or side, you can have NPCs in the graveyard that hand out GYstone1 and GYstone2 that poof when you log out, and if you die, you end up at the beginning, but that NPC in the beginning does a check to see if you have GYstone3, and sends you to the thrid GY because you made it that far and got the stone from the 3rd Grave yard during the event. This way it's not overly complicated handling the player deaths, because they shouldn't have to run all the way back across the zone... we want it to be fast moving, yet if they died 10 feet from the start point, they don't deserve to port to the last Graveyard.

With proximity checks, we can have "Tattle Tales" that tell on players when they go near a certain point, like they do in WoW... like on Combat, or when a player approaches, the Boss or Mini-boss shouts to the zone that Player1 is attacking. This way, if the defense on the opposite team wants to go defend that point, they hit up an NPC in a Graveyard and port to the nearest Graveyard where the shout was.

I like the idea about making it similar to the WoW Battlegrounds, but I think it needs to be accessible to a wide range of levels, so I don't know about the faction part. I think the rewards from in the event as well as the rewards for the Boss drop tickets should suffice. Maybe even have Epic 1.5 or 2.0 drop from the boss in the event to give some people some instant gratification.

[Ut0pia]

I really like the idea Fridgecritter, but I think I already told you that.

[w4xt33th]

well if the level factor is really that big you could always have the players shroud down to a lvl 15 or so mob and have the NPC that teleports players to the event check for that exact level. Just an idea. That way you could base it off of race also. goblins vs faeries or whatever. have the NPC check race/level.